So along comes a court ruling that makes photographers more anxious than they already are in this lethal time of quarantines, face masks and businesses shut down. Federal Court Judge Kimba Wood has issued a decision that has caused a large uptick in the consumption of adult beverages by photographers. Sinclair v Mashable Ziff Davis is not a favorable ruling to photographers in this unfavorable time. The good news – the sky is not falling.
This piece will attempt to provide you with at least two different views of the case in its entirety as well as with regard to key factors that “built” the case. Facts first and we don’t mind saying that distilling them into a few sentences is no small task. Neither of us have any personal information or involvement with the case. Ed and Jack have both read the key court papers and the Judge’s opinion.
FACTS
Stephanie Sinclair is a professional photographer. She sued media companies Ziff Davis, LLC and Mashable, Inc. for willful copyright infringement. The original court complaint which contains the basic allegations was changed (amended) several times. Finally, the operative complaint alleged that Mashable sought to license an image created and copyright registered by Ms. Sinclair for a licensing fee of $50.00. She refused the offer made by Mashable and no further meaningful negotiations appear to have been had. The defendants are linked together in business in that Ziff Davis owns Mashable.
The image had been posted on Instagram (The 6,000 lb gorilla) and was embedded onto Mashable’s website by Mashable. After Sinclair denied a license or permission to use her embedded image, it (sort of) ran anyhow thanks to the agreement Ms. Sinclair had with Instagram’s Terms and Conditions when she signed up to use Instagram (as everyone is required to in order to use Instagram).
Judge Wood’s Opinion and Order (legalese for “decision”) which should be read in its entirety – linked here – Sinclair V Ziff Davis and Mashable opinion, held that Ms. Sinclair had granted Instagram the right to sublicence to Mashable. The plaintiff had agreed to Instagram’s convoluted terms and conditions which included the right to sub-license. Having agreed to Instagram’s “Terms of Use” (TOU) which included a, “grant to Instagram of a non-exclusive, fully paid, royalty free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to (the submitted Content)”. So, in effect when Ms. Sinclair refused to license the image to Mashable, Mashable obtained it from Instagram via a transaction that in Judge Wood’s opinion, was quite kosher under the terms of use that Ms. Sinclair had consented to with Instagram.
Courts rarely, very rarely overturn or “tear up” a contract between two commercial entities absent some illegality, fraud or duress. Parties have ample opportunities to examine a proposed contract and if they can’t understand its terms for whatever reasons but still sign on anyway, the courts are not there to save the foolish from agreeing to things they don’t understand.
It is critically important to understand that this decision was made before any trial was had. Ms. Sinclair’s case was dismissed. In such circumstances the judge only has whatever papers placed before her by the attorneys. It is not the judge’s job to try to do factual research, consult with experts or do any outside reading. Judge Wood was limited to just the contents of the papers submitted by the attorneys, period. This decision resulted from a motion seeking to dismiss the case. Ed has read all the papers submitted by both sides in connection with the motion.
One of the reasons the two of us write this blog together is partly because we come from two very different disciplines and points of view. Ed, the lawyer, looks at things from a left brain, straightforward, legal view way. Jack the photographer has a right brain, creative point of view, and sees things from a working photographer’s viewpoint. Here’s a not so secret, secret- we don’t always agree. That doesn’t mean one of us is right and one is wrong in business terms, we just have different opinions sometimes on the same subject. For the most part, we do agree on many things and understand the other’s viewpoint when we don’t.
Ed’s View
In Sinclair v Mashable & Ziff Davis, Ed’s point of view is, as in anything you agree to by signing a contract/agreement etc., such as a Terms of Use (TOU) or Terms of Service (TOS) it’s up to you as a business person to read and understand what you’re agreeing to. If you don’t understand or can’t understand the agreement because it is confusing, too long to read, uses legalease with which you are unfamiliar or understand the agreement and don’t like it, DON’T SIGN IT. If the agreement is of consequence bring it to a lawyer. Have the lawyer read it and advise you as to whether there are compelling reasons for you to agree to it, change some terms or throw it in the fireplace. If you don’t understand the dense, often conflicting Instagram terms don’t agree to them.
Those of you who have seen us lecture know that Ed loathes Instagram, Facebook and other “Social Media” platforms. He has never advised nor condoned the terms of use contained in Instagram’s dense “agreement”. He readily concedes that Instagram does not hide its intent to screw the contributor. Its right there in black and white. Since courts don’t save businesses from their own stupidity in entering into a bad agreement, once you sign you are stuck and you will likely get screwed.
Ed’s direct, no pussy footing response to Instagram is the opposite of Nike’s motto – “Just Don’t Do It”. He thinks you are giving away too much in the form of uncontrollable rights. Why not just give Instagram your film card and a box of Godiva delights for Christmas and soon enough your images will get ripped off and you will be the victim of the terms you agreed to.
The most important party in this case was not a party to this case. Instagram was the gorilla in the courtroom. Ed having read the court papers agrees with Judge Woods opinion. He would have ruled the same way if the same papers were submitted to him. Ed is a passionate lunatic when it comes to classic cars. He uses car analogies all of the time when he thinks they fit. (Drives Jack crazy). In this case one analogy does fit…perfectly. Let’s say your old Uncle Joe, a 5th generation rancher in Montana dies leaving you EVERYTHING. You go out to the ranch and while looking around you find in an old barn a very boring looking 1966 Dodge Coronet 4 door sedan like the one pictured below:
You know nothing about cars. You do zero research about the car’s value. You do get in, it starts right up and you drive it outside. Ed sees the car and the hemi engine under the hood and offers you $500 cash money. You negotiate him up to $600 at which point Ed’s wife steps in, pushes Ed aside and buys the car for $600.
In 2007 a very similar car sold at auction for $660,000. These cars are extremely rare and very valuable. If the seller is dumb enough not to check on the car’s value nor seek the assistance of someone who is an expert in such matters, Mrs. Greenberg will promptly turn around and turn her $600 investment into almost one million dollars. And the seller? As Ron White says in his famous comedy album, “You can’t fix stupid” and the courts agree. The seller was not scammed nor forced to do anything at any time. Ed’s other phrase for Instagram and some other companies is “You sign, you die. I won’t help you commit economic suicide”. Neither will the courts.
Jack’s View
Jack on the other hand looks at it from a different point of view. With an audience of 800 million users, telling some photographers who are looking to expose their work to both a wide audience and to an expanding audience of clients such as art directors and art buyers, not to use Instagram is not a wise business strategy. A lot of ad agencies are looking at a photographer’s work on Instagram before they go to a photographer’s website.
One of the misconceptions surrounding the Sinclair case (and we see it numerous times in social media comments) is that people and companies can take your work on Instagram and just steal and use it for their own purposes cutting the creator out of the financial loop. Not really true. Judge Wood allowed the use by a third party (meaning basically anyone) as long as it was embedded and not copied. They could use the work if it was in a public account which permitted sub-licensing via embedding. You could set your account to “private” rather than “public”, which doesn’t allow embedding, but then what’s the point of having an Instagram account for professional use if only your friends see it?
If the photo is not uploaded to another site, but is just embedded, meaning it points to the original with code, then the photo is never “copied”. This brings up the issue of a photographer’s “exclusive right” of display, which is one of the specific rights in copyright law. That argument never came up because before anything else could be argued, Judge Wood ruled in a summary judgement that there was enough evidence in the legal briefs presented to dismiss the case. Jack may not like that result, but that’s the fact Jack. Gotta live with the Judge’s ruling.
So where do we stand? A question asked us by so many people on social media and with old fashion phone calls. Top level, looking down, there is another case, Goldberg v Breitbart, that is referred to in both side’s papers, which was favorable to photographers with a very somewhat similar (but not the same) type of issue, where the court ruled on a different set of facts.
Here is an over simple explanation of Goldberg v Breitbart (that Jack wrote and it makes Ed make funny noises under his breath as he sees it a bit differently), that an embedded image was still a display, to which a photographer copyright owner has what is known as exclusive rights. The Goldberg case was eventually settled, but the fact that there are two cases in two Federal Circuit courts that don’t line up together in the general idea of embedding and the right of display. When two or more Circuit Courts don’t agree on an issue, there is a chance that the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) might look and rule on the issue, if such a case that fully covers the issue can be brought forth (and paid for). On any such issue, that could be hugely very good, or it could be a huge disaster, depending on how the court would rule. No way of knowing or predicting that.
Which brings us back to what should a photographer do with a situation like this. While Ed’s advice will keep you out of trouble 100% of the time, it also keeps your images in a drawer, which he understands is not ideal. The two of us say, if you have to use Instagram, do it with your eyes open, be very careful what you post, don’t post your absolute winners, just good enough to drive people to your website, where you can control the usage completely. And (this will drive some readers bat dung crazy) watermark your images before you post them online. If you read our blog post on watermarking (linked here), you know that we recommend a small discreet watermark. If your image is ripped off (but legally used) in the same manner as in this case, at least people will know it’s your work. But much more important, if someone removes the watermark, then you have a new ball game. One, that means it’s no longer being embedded and now you can sue. To strip your watermark means someone had to physical crop and alter it. Judge Wood’s ruling only covers embedded images. Two, it’s now also a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
With that, hoping everyone and your loved ones are staying safe and drinking responsibly, not reactively, in these times. We welcome your comments on this issue.
#1 by Spirit Vision Photography on April 18, 2020 - 6:17 pm
A very informative and educational piece. Thank you.
Russ
#2 by Derek on April 19, 2020 - 1:08 am
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis. Appreciate the 2 views.
Best regards, Derek
#3 by James on April 20, 2020 - 2:45 am
Thanks for the thoughts. Find Ed’s take somewhat frustrating. By his logic, safest approach for a photographer would be to lock one’s best photos in a vault and swallow the key. As an attorney, I get that Ed approaches the issue from a risk mitigation angle. But he is assessing only one kind of risk. Following his advice and eschewing the best available promotional tools available to photographers today also poses a risk — a risk of lost opportunity. If I can’t really get my best photographs out there w/o potentially signing away the farm, I’m already starting from a lose/lose position.
#4 by Jack and Ed on April 20, 2020 - 9:39 pm
Not quite. I am referring to the posting of images on social media sites. Displaying a copyright registered, watermarked image on your own website or that of your representative/agent does not carry the same risks of posting on Instagram and similar or equivalent sites. You can post the same registered, watermarked image with a stock agent and reduce the risk of infringement by 95%. I completely understand why our photographer clients use social media sites. Some promote themselves via images which are not their “best work” but rather the best image(s) to promote themselves and market their work.
Here are examples:
1. Photog is hired to do the stills of the set of a movie starring Tom Hanks and Meryl Streep. Rather than post an image shot by him of either or both stars on Instagram, he posts a selfie of him arm and arm with both stars who are in period costumes for the movie. Accompanying copy, “Here I am on the set of the new Hanks/Streep film, “General Grant Goes to Hollywood”. “I was chosen by Paramount for this assignment. I also worked on “The Three Stooges Take Over the U.N.” for MGM last year.” That type image has great promotional value but is extremely unlikely to be infringed. A potential infringer with an IQ is unlikely to use an image which will likely invite mega law suits from Mr. Hanks and/or Ms. Streep. The potential infringer won’t care or even think about the photographer’s rights.
2. Another client posted her extremely famous photo, shot 10 years ago, used on packaging and TV commercials for a high profile cat food. Again, a photo unlikely to be infringed. Too well known to the public and readily noticeable.
3. Iconic photo, cover of ie Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue or Time’s Person of the year. Posted on Instagram unlikely to be stolen. Promotional value may be very high.
Generally speaking, images which are registered, watermarked and already published elsewhere, are “safer” to post than the best photo you have ever created, done on spec and never “seen before”. Any agreement, contract or terms of use which does not permit sub-licensing or an assignment of any of your copyright, right of display etc. would likely be fine with me. I have yet to see such terms which I would condone or find acceptable for our clients. Note on a positive note – if the image is watermarked and copyright registered and infringed you may have yourself a terrific lawsuit which will serve to recover lots of money for you. Possible but don’t count on it.
Ed
#5 by Jack and Ed on April 20, 2020 - 10:16 pm
While I don’t always agree with Ed on Social Media issues, and I have mixed feelings about using Instagram. I got to ask though why you think Instagram is the “best” available promotion tool (your words, please correct me if I’m reading that wrong).
I think there are other and in some cases better, more targeted promotional tools. Yes, 800 million is a formidable sea of eyeballs, but frankly, for some photographers it’s too big a sea. Out of 800 million, I’m really only trying to reach just a few dozen commercial clients. So why do I care that Joe in Somewhere-istan liked my photo?
I’ve seen Instagram used effectively, like by some as a billboard of their BTS photos, since sometimes they have NDAs and can’t show the finals. It also makes them look very busy, even in slow times. Others use it to drive people to their websites, which I think is a better place to show your work, and more valuable.
I used Instagram for a while for a specific reason and audience target. Nothing went on without registration and a watermark, unless it was cell phone type image, a nothing photo, to illustrate something like a sign I saw (where I couldn’t register the copyright anyway). Once my goal with Instagram changed (and I saw this court ruling) I now have a private account. If my goals change, I’ll change it again.
But just throwing out photos to the world, what’s the point of getting eyeballs and likes and comments in some odd part of the world? I know Instagram is a tool for many photographers, and a tool for art buyers looking for photographers. But I still think it’s become such a vast sea, there are still other promotional vehicles. For those that have mid to high 6 figures of followers, or more, it’s a money making platform by itself, but that becomes a full time job.
I see many photographers who don’t have that kind of following and spend way too much time on Instagram for too little return. Saying “Follow me on Instagram” is a very easy approach. Thats why so many people do it. I look up people on Instagram, and if a quick taste suits me, I’ll check out their website. That’s the real meal.
I’m rambling a bit here, but I think in the end what I’m trying to say is that you should have a clear idea if you need to be on Instagram, and for some, I agree you do need to be represented in that space. I tell my graduate students that at this point in their careers they need to be on Instagram. But make sure you know what your goals are with it, do it with open eyes as to what can happen, and do as much as you can to protect your images – registration and watermarks.
Jack
#6 by James on April 22, 2020 - 10:05 pm
In reply to Ed,
Ed, I understand what you are proscribing and, of course, my analogy of locking the photos away in a vault was an exaggeration to make a point. Nevertheless, the level of exposure for an emerging photographer is astronomically higher on popular social media platforms than it is on his own website or his agent’s website. So, of course, one could restrict oneself to those personal websites, but how many potential clients or art buyers are likely to come directly there? I do, however, appreciate both your and Jack’s point that careful posts on social media could be strategically used to redirect traffic/interest to the safer personal websites.
I found your 3 examples, however, very limiting. Unless you are a very well established photographer already with well known published images and media-worthy publicity photos or selfies with celebrity clients, these examples don’t really apply, do they? I mean, what percentage of your readership do you think actually qualifies for that group.
Ultimately, I understand what your argument is: the social Media TOSes are heavily skewed against you. And they are what they are. So if you don’t want to take the risk of getting infringed, don’t use those sites. End of argument. I get it.
I guess what I don’t understand is: 1. Why there isn’t enough commercial interest in the stakes to prompt a large consortium of photographers and/or copyright attorneys to lobby social media companies to alter their TOSes, especially on the issue of allowing sub-licensing? I would imagine, it is in both group’s interests to arrive at an acceptable compromise (social media companies must be aware that as more court decisions appear like this last one more and more photographers will be wary of posting to their platforms); and 2: Isn’t there a compelling space here for competing social media platforms catering to visual content providers but with more acceptable TOSes to emerge and challenge the established giants?
Thanks, James
#7 by James on April 22, 2020 - 10:11 pm
In Reply to Jack,
Jack,
You make some excellent points. I had avoided posting on FB and IG for many, many years. Then decided to take the plunge just a couple of months ago, so found this particular court decision very frustrating. But you make valid points about over-valuing FB or IG exposure.
Wondering if you make a distinction about the danger of posting on FB vs IG? On FB, you can restrict visibility in a more graduated way. Outside of Public, there are numerous other options, including Friends or Friends of Friends, which while not completely safe certainly reduces the chances of being ripped off by some random, unknown entity. On the other hand, IG’s privacy policy is totally binary — either completely public or completely private, making it harder to limit infringement while still allowing for a degree of exposure.
Thanks, James
#8 by O.W. Holmes on April 23, 2020 - 2:19 pm
“ there are two cases in two Federal Circuit courts that don’t line up together in the general idea of embedding and the right of display. When two or more Circuit Courts don’t agree on an issue, there is a chance that the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS)“
They’re not two circuit court cases let alone cases in different circuits. They’re two district court cases out of S.D.N.Y. Neither case even went up to the 2nd circuit.
#9 by Jack and Ed on April 23, 2020 - 3:26 pm
My Dear Holmes,
With all due respect and with apologies for the length of this reply, I think you’re “over lawyering” this. There are no points to be made here, we’re just discussing these cases as a way to enlighten our readers who are mostly photographers and artists. You are correct in that they are not circuit cases themselves.
There are really three cases that are being discussed that make our point 1) Sinclair v Masable & Ziff Davis and 2) Goldman v Breitbart News Network. Both of those cases involve an interpretation of what “embedding” involves. In one it’s about Instagram’s TOU, even though Instagram is not named in the suit. The other states that embedding an image constitutes a “display” of a photographer’s work and infringes on their exclusive right. Different, but both somewhat involving interpretations of “embedding”.
The third case is the SCOTUS ruling in Fourth Estate v Getty. That has nothing to do with embedding, it’s about the idea of registration application verses certification. There were Circuits that treated registration and filing cases differently. Spoiler alert for those who didn’t follow this case: certification won. You have to have the registration certificate in hand before you can file a copyright infringement case.
That ruling shows that when there is a conflict between the interpretations by and between Federal Circuit Courts as to a question like “What is the legal affect of embedding ?” then SCOTUS may get involved and make a ruling become the standard for all Federal Courts where ever they are located.
What we don’t want to do with this blog, written for creative types, is to go into the fine points of the Federal Court system itself. Maybe Ed might want to answer that. This is the reason the two of us write. Trying to get information explained and viewed through the combined lens of a photographer and a lawyer view.
Regards,
Jack
#10 by Andrew Paul Leonard on April 23, 2020 - 3:40 pm
Nice article!
If the third party embeds a photographer’s photo with the watermark not appearing in the visible area (perhaps cropped out with code) how could this play out?
#11 by Jack and Ed on April 23, 2020 - 3:46 pm
Thanks Andrew. If it’s embedded, it should just point to the image itself. The image itself is never touched. If your watermark isn’t there, then I’d have to assume that it isn’t being embedded, as it would have to be copied and cropped out. Jack
#12 by Jack and Ed on April 23, 2020 - 3:57 pm
Thanks James,
I’d say the only way to get this changed on Instagram is a campaign to pressure Facebook (the owners of Instagram) to change their controls so you can control if a specific image is allowed to be embedded. I believe people and trade associations are planning actions.
As far as FB vs IG, depends on your audience and what you’re trying to do, who you want to see your images. Frankly, I think FB is more social and skews older. IG I think skews a little younger and is more commercially viewed, as in photographers wanting a showcase for people looking for photographers. That’s overly simplistic, but that’s the way I see it.
In any case, you should always be wary on any social media platform. As I alluded to in the piece, if you’re beginning in your career, or are a photographer working commercially, I think you have to be on Instagram. Not so much Facebook. Facebook is where I post my best puns for my friends.
Jack
#13 by Edward Greenberg on April 23, 2020 - 4:28 pm
To James, regarding the last paragraph of your post dated April 22nd.
Social media companies are inundated with billions of photos from amateurs, kids, wanna be photographers, lay people a high percentage of which are of sufficient quality and/or portray a subject or subject matter making them easy to license to third parties. The quality of the photography is rarely of concern to the licensee nor to the social media site assuming it is what I like to call “serviceable for the use intended”. A true “Mad Man” told me decades ago that “Many succesful, great ad campaigns were run using mediocre photography” He was and still is, correct.
Professional photographers represent a small voice and bluntly, some of these sites don’t care whether you make a living or not. They don’t need you folks because they have billions of other submissions. Attempts at cleaning up their TOU/TOS are more effective if coming from the courts or legislatures. I don’t mean to imply that you ought not make whatever efforts you elect to try to get them to change their policies including refusing to contribute images to them.
Candidly, if I were the attorney representing Instagram and my client has been successful in appropriating the use of contributed images as they have been, I wouldn’t suggest they change the policy unless pushed to do so by the courts, The Federal Trade Commission or some equivalent powerful body.
They have treated contributors like sheep and have gotten away with it so until/unless some court, prosecutor or government agency makes them stop why should they? Many people agree to conditions they don’t understand or even read. The courts are not in existence to save (especially) business people from doing “imprudent” things.
#14 by Edward Greenberg on April 23, 2020 - 5:08 pm
Adding to Jack’s comment and in an attempt to explain what few non-lawyers have any knowledge of….
Here is a very simplified version of the structure of the US Federal Court system. All copyright cases MUST be handled in the Federal Courts which of course, handle many other types of cases both civil and criminal.
There are three “levels” of federal courts beginning with the District Courts. These are the courts in which all copyright cases are initially filed, motions may be heard and trials held. The number and locations of District Courts are essentially based on population and how many court cases are generated in a given area. There are 94 districts in the USA and 13 “Circuits”.
Some districts have say two courthouses others have more depending on density/population/ geography. So the Southern District of NY which covers the counties of NY (Manhattan), the Bronx and the county of Westchester has 3 courthouses. Two in Manhattan 75 feet apart from each other and one 27 miles away in White Plains, Westchester County.
In the Central District in Florida the Middle District has courthouses from Jacksonville to Orlando and on to Tampa. Covering several hundred miles. Further west in America the District Courts are spaced based on population, need etc.
There are 13 “Circuits” Each District Court is located in a numbered Circuit. A District Court in LA or SF, Montana or AZ are all located in the giant 9th Circuit which covers CA, AZ, OR, Idaho, Montana, Nevada and Washington state. The 2nd Circuit covers the Distric Courts in (just) NY state, CT and Vermont. Each Circuit exists for the purposes of hearing appeals from the District Courts within that circuit. So any appeal from a decision in a case heard in Manhattan goes to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals in a case heard in SF, Sacramento or Seattle, an appeal would be heard by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Atop the pyramid is the Supreme Court of the United States. It has the power to (with rare exceptions) CHOOSE which cases it will hear. If, as and when say a federal law ie Copyright, Bankruptcy, narcotics distribution has been interpreted by two or more Circuit Courts “differently” applying different standards, SCOTUS (in theory) stands ready to resolve these differing legal standards as determined by different Circuit Courts of Appeals. SCOTUS may then issue a decision/ruling which will then apply in all circuits and all district courts.
So if in a given case the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals rules that the test of whether something constitutes say, copyright infringement is the “X Test”, the 9th Circuit rules it is the “Y test”. SCOTUS could settle the inconsistent application of law and hold that the correct test for all District and Circuit Courts is: the X test, or the Y test or create and direct that the “Z test” must be used by all District Courts as well as by all Circuit Courts of Appeal.
#15 by James on April 23, 2020 - 7:04 pm
Thanks, Ed. You make a depressingly compelling case for how hard it will be to change the TOSes. I appreciate the explanation.
#16 by James on April 23, 2020 - 7:06 pm
Thanks, Jack. Good points. I appreciate your time and thoughts. So frustrating to have to use IG with the idea that you really shouldn’t post your most compelling images. Oh well.
#17 by Derek on April 23, 2020 - 8:22 pm
Hi Ed,
I found your explanation very interesting about why these large social media platforms would not be willing or motivated to change their TOS and get rid of the sublicensable rights, at the least. Given that your main point is that artists and pro photographers make up only a small part of the IG contributor base, that makes a lot of sense. But what about the sites that cater primarily to artists and serious photographers looking to sell their images?
For example, Artsy.net, which is such a site also demands sublicensable rights as well. (“5.8 By submitting, posting, publishing or otherwise providing any User Content on or through our Services, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right and license to use, host, store, process, reproduce, distribute, publish, adapt, modify, translate, create derivative works from, publicly perform, and publicly display Your User Content, in any and all media now known or later developed, for the purposes of operating, distributing, promoting, and improving our Services, and developing new Services.”)
As they represent the works of over 100,000 artists worldwide (they claim), I guess that condition of use has not prevented their signing up a ton of artists. They also appear to be a site that leans heavily on the selling of limited prints and less about the licensing of rights. But their terms asking for sublicensing rights are so vague (e.g., “…sublicensable (through multiple tiers)…for the purposes of operating, distributing, promoting, and improving our Services, and developing new Services”) it is really hard to know what to make of it. I have written them asking for a clarification of exactly what that would allow them to do with the posted images (and what they would allow other users to do with one’s images), but I’m assuming you would caution any users of the site to expect the widest latitude interpretation.
Anyhow, as this is a type of site that caters to artists and serious photographers only, do you think this would be a better target to pressure for re-vising their TOS? Or do you think they would be just as unlikely to budge given their size and level of success?
Thanks, Derek
#18 by James on April 24, 2020 - 2:15 am
Ed, couldn’t such one-sided terms as the TOSes we are discussing be considered “contracts of adhesion”?
Thanks James
#19 by Edward Greenberg on April 26, 2020 - 2:25 pm
“Contracts of Adhesion” – without getting into the legal weeds here – are difficult to prove and when it is a viable defense used to avoid complying with a contract, it is almost always in a consumer context. ie insurance agreements by state licensed insurance companies intended to protect consumers as in car, fire, flood insurance or unfair utility contracts for CONSUMERS. It is extremely rare for a contract of adhesion – which in effect voids the contract because it is so blatantly unfair – is found in any contract between two businesses no matter their relative size(s). The topic comes up more often in law school classes than in real life.
In terms of “who to pressure” to change the status quo, my answer is EVERYBODY on the food chain. Unfortunately photographers have with rare exception, made effective, unified battles to change things in the photo industry. They tend to listen to far too many so-called experts, non-lawyers, non-lobbyists and getting them to form a united effective coalition is much like herding cats – just my opinion based on the last 41 years.
#20 by Kenneth Salstrom on April 27, 2020 - 10:28 am
Does sub-license mean that the image can just be grabbed from Instagram or do they need to get some kind of license from Instagram for the specific image?
#21 by Jack and Ed on April 27, 2020 - 1:23 pm
My impression (and I could be wrong, but fairly sure I’m not) is that all you need is to be a user of Instagram, meaning having an account, in order to qualify to embed an image posted on Instagram. It’s an automatic sub-license.
Again, just my opinion from what I understand. What this case doesn’t imply and what anyone still can’t do is copy the images. It’s still about embedding an image. And it appears to me that merely having an Instagram account qualifies you to have a sub-license to embed.
Jack
#22 by Derek on May 1, 2020 - 3:06 am
Jack,
Is the definition of sublicensing generally understood to allow embedding but not outright use? If this case had been a direct lift of the image instead of an embedded link why wouldn’t the judge have allowed the outright lift as well by her reading of the term sublicense? I mean, wouldn’t the term sublicense allow IG to let the sub-licensee use the image in any way they wanted? Guess, once the judge is going down this path, I don’t see why sublicense would restrict itself to just embedding rights. I realize this case was a use of an embedding. But the next case may not be and I don’t see why the term sublicense would restrict that. Thanks.
#23 by Alain on May 20, 2020 - 2:28 pm
Thanks for the insightful post – As a working fine art photographer, while I don’t like IG’s TOUs, I have learned to live with them – and choose wisely which images I post and which I don’t…
Regarding “watermarking”… What’s your opinion on digital watermarks, like Digimarc? I usually add BOTH a discreet visible mark, as well as a digimarc.
-Alain.
#24 by Jack and Ed on May 24, 2020 - 8:28 pm
Hi Alain,
Don’t have any experience with Digimarc, but sounds like a good service if it works. Belt and suspenders couldn’t hurt. Have you had any experience with them finding uses of your images?
#25 by Alain on June 25, 2020 - 4:08 pm
Hi Ed – Sorry, have been busy shooting in AZ, UT, CO, NM, and WY since late May; just got back…
Yes, Digimarc has a crawler that will ID tagged photos posted on sites (other than my own – whitelisted…) Doesn’t happen often, but when it does having my attorney send a cease and desist letter usually does the trick; and there’s a paragraph about commercially licensing in the letter as well, but usually, the offenders just remove the stolen photograph.
The nice thing about the digimarc is that it cannot be removed by cropping or other editing, etc. I’ve had my signature removed once before (they used the clone stamp tool!), which is why I started to use the digimarc (and a visible mark.) While a PITA at the time, it helped me find a good IP attorney (knowledgeable in copyright law,) and since we were able to show willful infringement, the offenders (a rather well-known entity that should have known better…) agreed on a nice settlement, and a licensing agreement for WW distribution in print and Web. And they even got my full-resolution file out of it :).
#26 by Ken Brown on August 30, 2020 - 11:20 pm
I’m with Ed on avoid social media sites. Likes aren’t going to pay my mortgage and my work is done for local (within 200 miles) clients. A following of people in New Zealand does nothing for me and likely never will. Trying to manage a online presence with thousands of followers is also a burden. Just getting messages from 1% would eat up my whole day. Couple that with the abuse that gets hurled if you don’t reply within 15 minutes day or night. Heaven forbid (that’s near Tashkent, isn’t it?) my phone number gets doxed and I’m inundated with people calling me at 9am their time and oh dark thirty my time.
The holy grail (A restaurant in Prague…. or was that the Holy Grill?) is to have a social media presence that targets the sort of people looking to hire me at my prices that are still in country. I’m happy to communicate with those sorts of people all day long. Not the ones on the other side of the planet that want to know what my shutter speed was for a photo and then proceed to tell me why it was wrong.
#27 by Jack and Ed on August 31, 2020 - 12:39 pm
Ken, I don’t completely disagree, but I don’t agree completely either. There are reasons to have a presence on social media, you just have to be very careful and know why you’re there on that site. I just got a call last week from an old high school classmate I haven’t seen in over 40+ years. She saw one of my images that would fit well into a museum show she is curating. It’s a connection that wouldn’t happen without the serendipity of social media. Without me using social media, that photo might as well just stay in a drawer (or computer) forever.
A friend, just snagged a very nice book deal that came about strictly with what he was posting on Facebook. He wasn’t thinking a book, but the proposal came to him.
Yes, I agree there are dark issues with social media and for some people it’s just a time suck that you don’t need. But in this day and age, I think it’s important and critical in business to have a presence. Not just for potential clients that you would never run across otherwise, but to stay in touch with your current clients. Out of sight (or site), out of mind. It’s just another form (and culture) of advertising in my opinion.
By the way, I do have a following in New Zealand and was invited years ago by their national photo organization to give a lecture and they made me an honorary fellow. A great and talented group of photographers and an amazingly beautiful country.
#28 by Mike Hussey on December 4, 2021 - 1:38 pm
This has changed since the posting of this blog, right? Instagram stepped back a bit in letting people embed?
In this initial case I think the lawyers failed in addressing the embedding in general. Just because Instagram makes it easier to embed doesn’t make it right for this other companies to do so. Any website could put a frame in the middle of their page and open up another connection to another website and display anything publicly available in that frame, it doesn’t make it right. I’m actually surprised that a company hasn’t tried to make a service that does that, just to help others get around copyright. I seem to remember that there might have been other cases addressing the whole “hosted by a third party” loophole.
And precedent on these matters for copyright purposes really needs more fleshing out, and could be a good subject of many future discussions for you guys!